Creationist vs Evolution

I personally subscribe to the discworld theory that the earth is aplate balanced on four elephants standing on a tortoise. My proof of this is thus: who here has ever been to the edge of the world to prove this theory??????
I also believe eating bananas is canniballism and everyone should have a sense of humour. Goodnight

you have been gorging on the dead foetus' of homeless banana people

I sort of believe both theories are true because there are lots of gaps in eveolution, but there are also lots of examples of evolution. I think i believe adaptation instead of evolution, but i am so not sure. Maybe things were created and then evolved, too. (?)

I do not believe the big bang because in the beginning there had to be nothing, but nothing can be created from nothing, so how is god created too? - also, how did the world exist at-all if there was nothing (which there has to be), but if there really is nothing then how come there is anything? ( silly paradox! :-[)
There is a new theory too that tiny universes (which contain everything) appear into this dimension from other dimensions, and the little universes expand into big universes. I am not sure it is true.

Creationism = Religion
Evolution = foundation of much of Biology

They should be taught separately.

I was taught about different stories of creation, including one about a giant turtle, in R.E. That's where I'd expect to be taught it. If they had started to tell me that God had created humans in biology, i would have had a go. As far as i'm concerned, no matter how hard people try, science and religion are quite separated

Zombie Dave, he say: "Prrz drr nrrrt rrrsrrrrrct trrr thrrrd."

"Trrrsorrr."

I still prefer the humans are an alien experiment theory.

I have five minutes until a lecture, but here goes:

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Of course we cannot prove there is a God by reason or by logical argument.

Why on earth not? This amounts to an admission that the universe could conceivably have arisen by processes other than God's creation and thus God is not needed to explain anything.

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You cannot prove love in this way either. That does not mean that love does not exist!

You can however quantify love as the name we give to chemical reactions that occur in the brain.

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Philosophers who deny the existence of God find they have to put God back into their thinking by using another word or expression - 'The Absolute', 'The Life force' or 'The Ground of Existence'.

Equally, theistic philosophers who try to prove God's existence end up merely "proving" the existence of such an abstract, featureless entity that it might as well just be another name for nature itself.

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They have to do this because the amazing univers and the world in which we live demand a master designer, architect, engineer and artist.

A very popular fallacy with no real substance, which I feel doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

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God has no beginning and no end. He is not limited by time - hours, days, weeks and years - as we are.

Since time until the present is finite, this amounts to saying that God is "removed" from time, and since causality is time-dependent, this means that God couldn't have created anything!

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He never changes, as we do.

How about changing from a God that hasn't created the universe to a god that has!

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We live in a world of outstanding beauty and order.

Subjectively of course. Order and matter go hand in hand so the universe could not have conceivably been less ordered.

That's all I have time for folks.

I think it can, and the book I quoted from on the other forum says:
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'Adam' is simply the Hebrew word for man - the first man.
We do not know whether the first true man, 'homo sapiens', came from other animal life.

So evolution may well exist (I still don't think it does) and it could well be God-guided.

what caused the big bang then if time or anything for that matter didn't exist before that moment, then what the heck caused it in the first place?

It wouldn't be inconsistent with any known principles for the big bang to be uncaused.

Another i like well one i just made up is that time itself is a large paradox, perhaps the universe we live in now was created by the death of a universe that existed before, that string theory programme said that its possible for there to be many different universes let alone galaxies etc... But then again that still doesnt come up with how thoses universes got there in the first place... *SPACECRAFT* i still think aliens are involved

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i've a feeling the God vs Science thing has been run down as much as is possible now.
Posted by: Captain Stupendo

No chance, we've barely scratched the surface.

Quote: Parsley_Possum_

No chance, we've barely scratched the surface.

well that was the first post on this thread for a week, so let's say 'i've a feeling it's been run down as much as it is going to be on this thread' instead.

well after weeks and weeks of waiting, i've finally voted in the poll.

i don't really like to vote in polls like these, wheres theres nothing concrete to base answers on, but meh, 19 years of my life i've believed in evolution, it's going to take something rather special to convince me otherwise. namely video footage and a free pass to heaven that i can use as and when, even if i've not conked out.

Yes, the tsunami was a disaster, and was a tragedy.
However, look at what it did for unaffected places - the generosity of some people was genuinely amazing. It restored several people's faith in humanity.

Christian belief:
We have to remember that God can see 'the bigger picture'. We see the now and the past, God sees all time. His thoughts are far higher than human thoughts can comprehend. Everything that happens leads to something else happening, that is, everything happens for a reason. And where it's obviously true that we can't see what that reason is, God can.
Scripture tells us that in the 'end times' there will be, among other things, natural distasters in many parts of the world. Which, tied in with the other things it talks about, is prophecy coming to fruition. All the signs point to Jesus returning to earth sooner than we care to imagine. There will be more natural disasters. There will be persecution towards Christians - not just physical violence, but to the point where unless a person bears a Satanic mark they won't even so much as be able to buy a loaf of bread. It's coming. The amount of demonic forces at work in this world is astounding, and increasing rapidly. Satanism is rampant not only in underground cults but in major corporations, government officials, even within the Christian church. Christians - TRUE Christians - have to take up the armour of God and be extremely wary. Stay with God, the end, as they say, is near.
/Christian belief

So, in a nutshell, natural disasters are a sign of the end times.

If anything I've said has offended anyone - I'm sorry. But what I've posted is the Christian belief and what Christians believe to be the truth. If anyone should want to complain about it then take it to PMs.... That'll do for a disclaimer.

There's always going to be idiots, anywhere you go, and that includes religion. People who kill in the name of Islam are stupid - the word Islam means peace. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say 'kill those who don't bow before Allah'. These people do not understand their own religion! The same goes for Christian 'fanatics', like the people who attacked abortion clinic doctors a few weeks back. That was wrong, no question about it.
But this is because people are flawed. People sin. It's people that are killing people in this case, not God. They may say they're doing it for God, but because people are flawed they can be and in these cases are misguided.

God cares. Of course He cares. If He didn't care, Jesus wouldn't have died on the cross. Historical records show that this happened. If God didn't care, churches and charities like Christian Aid, BMS etc, would not exist. It's because God cares that churches and Christian charities want to help people in poverty, in this country as much as the third world.
Just yesterday, there was a seemingly homeless person outside the church as the minister was arriving. He asked the minister if he had any money for a cup of tea, to which the minister replied: "Why don't you come into church and I'll make you a cup of tea?" Without saying he had to stay for the actual service or anything like that, but the man declined, saying "The only time I'm going in a church is when I'm flat on my back in a wooden box." So it's not that God doesn't care, here the minister was showing God's love through caring for the man, offering him a cup of tea, but the man didn't want to know. God cares, but people often block that He does and don't want to know. If people were more open to God's care then they would experience it.

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unless a person bears a Satanic mark they won't even so much as be able to buy a loaf of bread.

Do you realise how paranoid that sounds? Christianiaty is still the majority belief in most western countries, yet many Christians act like they're being marginalised when it couldn't be further from the truth.

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Everything that happens leads to something else happening, that is, everything happens for a reason.

Whatever end the Asian tsunami was a means to, why could an all powerful god not find an alternative path which didn't require the death of thousands? The only conclusion is that God is as powerless over causality as the rest of us, and therefore no God at all.

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Scripture tells us that in the 'end times' there will be, among other things, natural distasters in many parts of the world.

Natural distasters are hardly a new phenomenon. People have been positing the end of the world for millennia.



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Scientists argue that god cannot existbecause that there no proof

No, scientists suspend any kind of belief in god because there is no proof.

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As yet they have found no way of being able to prove this theory yet hundereds of scientists are more than happy to accept that it is right. I cannot see too much difference in believing in a little strand of energy and an all seeing all knowing god because there is no way of proving either.

That just isn't true either. Scientists are excited by it because of it's mathematical elegance, it's possible explanatory power and it's predictive properties. The only scientist which believes a theory without sufficient evidence is a creation "scientist".
There may be a way of proving string theory, there may not, but there are certain phenomena which could provide evidential backing for it, and as string theory is very new, it may be a very long time before scientists know either way.

Re: Tsunami / Natural Disasters

This for me is one of the main reasons I find it very difficult to entertain the idea that there may be a God. Obviously I can't dispel it as fiction, but, well put it this way, if I created the Earth i'd not be wanting Tsunamis. I can't think of a single good reason for the death of thousands.

I must say that i'm chuffed that everyone can handle a coherant debate without anything petty or malicious. My concerns earlier in the thread now look exaggerated.

What I am saying is that god is there but people choose to ignore him until until its suits them.

well that's all well and good, but it doesn't really explain the need for tsunami's, etc.

unless you're saying that God lets Tsunamis (etc) happen in order for people to take notice of him and let them know He is still there?

its pretty simple, we have evidence suggesting that Evolution is correct. We have no evidence to suggest the Creationism is correct.

To those of you who voted for creationism, I'd hate to be in court and realise you were the jury. I know it goes against religion and all, and I am a Christian, but there's only one answer in my opinion