Criticism of the military

I stumbled upon this facebook group the other day when some of my more right-wing friends (coincidentally the same ones in the infamous 'I was born in the UK...' group, but that's not really relevant) joined it. A rather astonishing six thousand people want this group removed, with venom usually reserved for the BNP or being Ian Huntley.

Just why is criticising the military seen as such a big no-no? The group in question isn't particularly abusive, and while it's not 100% accurate isn't doing much harm. It's worth noting that the membership is one tenth of the protest group.

I don't agree with everything on there, and I understand the purpose of having a military. Germany in WW2 was clearly a threat to the country, and action was needed. But the main purpose of the group seems to be questioning why unconditional praise is lavished on the military, when let's be honest it's done very little to deserve it? A soldier coming home dead is a hero, when for all we know he could have just been a bit of a sh*t soldier and standing in the wrong place.

Lets be honest, much of the criticism derives from Iraq. Quite in contrast to the 'fighting for our country' line that is often trotted out, the Iraq war has very little relevance to the UK, now we know the '45 minute weapons' claim was a lie. And I believe there are newspaper polls that suggest the majority of people want the troops to come home. While they are performing a peacekeeping function (which would be better suited to UN troops) it seems that their main purpose over the last four years or so is to perform numerous human rights abuses.

Then you have the free speech argument. As Tony Blair and George Bush were so keen to remind us repeatedly, our civilisations were founded on free speech and democracy, hence going into Iraq in the first place to enforce democracy. Yet it seems the people supporting this action are also the people who are arguing to crack down on this right.

This isn't particularly patriotic (the other common insult thrown at people who share this viewpoint), but so what? What does that word even mean in this day and age? Why should we accept everything the country does unquestionably?

Quote: Squirrell_of_Doom

Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.

The problem i have with c*nts and groups like that is that the basis of their argument is fundamentally wrong. People sign up to the Armed Forces to serve their country and do so whether they agree with the political climate/highly controversial war or not. They do so because if they don't, who else will?

Criticising the soldiers for fighting out there is the most boneheaded thing a tree hugger can possibly do in relation to the situation, and shows a complete lack of understanding of...it all! (i still maintain that in order to fully understand military life, you have to have lived the military life, and i know a few people on here who have because they're the only ones i really pay any attention to when something like this comes up)

The soldiers are doing their job - It's the people who authorised the invasion that should have their ankles broken so we can recognise them by their limping. Damning the soldiers isn't going to change a thing out there except disillusion the people who risk death by going to work. Damning the folk who sent them there might, just might, one day make a difference.

Whilst i'd never ever want to see the freedom of speech eradicated, some people just deserve to have their tongues cut off for the sake of irony.

this.

I concur with Tory Boy on this, rather sadly. I don't think you should be personally attacked for holding the opinion Joel, I just think you're wrong and have posted on your Facebook with my £0.02.

(But hey, it's freedom of speech. Good luck with it.)

Quote: Look_Dad_No_Tunes

Though let's leave the Godwin's Law stuff out of this.

I don't think it's Godwin's Law if it occurs in the first reply.


I also don't agree that everything can be justified with 'theyre just doing their job', like everyone is totally naive when they sign up. Surely when people sign up they must have some idea of what their job MAY entail. Particularly as according to the Guardian recruitment was up 9.2% for the most recent year figures were available (2006).

Quote: pablomarmite

Quote: Look_Dad_No_Tunes

Though let's leave the Godwin's Law stuff out of this.

I don't think it's Godwin's Law if it occurs in the first reply.


I also don't agree that everything can be justified with 'theyre just doing their job', like everyone is totally naive when they sign up. Surely when people sign up they must have some idea of what their job MAY entail. Particularly as according to the Guardian recruitment was up 9.2% for the most recent year figures were available (2006).

So can you name a country that doesn't have a military? It's not exactly realistic to suggest all people are in a position to turn down what the miltary life offers. I don't doubt there are some complete d*cks in the army (I know a few), but calling them 'baby killers' isn't exactly helpful either. It's like people who call students lazy drunken tax dodging unwashed guardian reading c*nts. Undoubtedly there are students that conform to that stereotype, but it's unfair on most.

Yes Joel, but the only people who won't grant you having that opinion are idiots anyway. Equally, do you think calling soldiers 'baby killers' is helpful?

Quote: fsc

Quote:

Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.

You endorsing Keynesian pump-priming there, Dan?

The results were impressive economically, but the methods used to get them were less so. I'm still all about Milton Friedman

Quote: sammy_tsang

Quote: pablomarmite

I should point out again in my first post I said I understand the need of a military. I'm not against soldiers, I'm against the idea that they're somehow beyond criticism.

agreed.

facebook and the world must be a place for freedom of speech.

facebook is privately owned. they can remove what they like.

Quote: sammy_tsang

Quote: Squirrell_of_Doom

Quote: sammy_tsang

Quote: pablomarmite

I should point out again in my first post I said I understand the need of a military. I'm not against soldiers, I'm against the idea that they're somehow beyond criticism.

agreed.

facebook and the world must be a place for freedom of speech.

facebook is privately owned. they can remove what they like.

fair enough did not know it was privately owned. they own it they can do what they want i guess.

who/what did you think owned it then?

Quote: sammy_tsang

Quote: Squirrell_of_Doom

Quote: sammy_tsang

Quote: Squirrell_of_Doom

Quote: sammy_tsang

Quote: pablomarmite

I should point out again in my first post I said I understand the need of a military. I'm not against soldiers, I'm against the idea that they're somehow beyond criticism.

agreed.

facebook and the world must be a place for freedom of speech.

facebook is privately owned. they can remove what they like.

fair enough did not know it was privately owned. they own it they can do what they want i guess.

who/what did you think owned it then?

some company called facebook plc/ltd something or other. doesn't really matter who owns it. i only use it instead of using my phone.

Eh?? If a company owns it, it's private property.

Quote: biggaginge

Quote: girlpants

Yes, some of them are wrong.

Like the ones that seem to think copyright infringement isn't a crime.

No no no. It is a crime, but its OK to break it because other people do the same...

No i did something illegal a long time ago. just ask Emma the 37th. The evidence is in the CD Got to bless Classical music

Quote: tammytomatoes

Without Facebook the world would end anyway.

... What? Is it really that simple to destroy the world? [smiley=a-Evil.gif]

Shhh..it's not for all to know.

Really though, I would love the see the world react to Mypsace just going poof in one day. It's sure to end some lives.

Quote: Dr_Namgge

Quote: tammytomatoes

Shhh..it's not for all to know.

Really though, I would love the see the world react to Mypsace just going poof in one day. It's sure to end some lives.

In before: "He was an hero..."

[/ /b/ lulz]

Huh?

Actually, you may just be 'inb4 teh lockage', that Thing. Which is precisely what I'm tempted to do to any future threads containing the witless faggotry known as 4chan.