Criticism of the military

Posted In: Rants. Reading This Thread:

Albi The Racist Dragon

| 7,432 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 3:43 pm

Albi The Racist Dragon -

 
I stumbled upon this facebook group the other day when some of my more right-wing friends (coincidentally the same ones in the infamous 'I was born in the UK...' group, but that's not really relevant) joined it. A rather astonishing six thousand people want this group removed, with venom usually reserved for the BNP or being Ian Huntley.

Just why is criticising the military seen as such a big no-no? The group in question isn't particularly abusive, and while it's not 100% accurate isn't doing much harm. It's worth noting that the membership is one tenth of the protest group.

I don't agree with everything on there, and I understand the purpose of having a military. Germany in WW2 was clearly a threat to the country, and action was needed. But the main purpose of the group seems to be questioning why unconditional praise is lavished on the military, when let's be honest it's done very little to deserve it? A soldier coming home dead is a hero, when for all we know he could have just been a bit of a sh*t soldier and standing in the wrong place.

Lets be honest, much of the criticism derives from Iraq. Quite in contrast to the 'fighting for our country' line that is often trotted out, the Iraq war has very little relevance to the UK, now we know the '45 minute weapons' claim was a lie. And I believe there are newspaper polls that suggest the majority of people want the troops to come home. While they are performing a peacekeeping function (which would be better suited to UN troops) it seems that their main purpose over the last four years or so is to perform numerous human rights abuses.

Then you have the free speech argument. As Tony Blair and George Bush were so keen to remind us repeatedly, our civilisations were founded on free speech and democracy, hence going into Iraq in the first place to enforce democracy. Yet it seems the people supporting this action are also the people who are arguing to crack down on this right.

This isn't particularly patriotic (the other common insult thrown at people who share this viewpoint), but so what? What does that word even mean in this day and age? Why should we accept everything the country does unquestionably?
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Albert Johanneson

| 14,477 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:00 pm

Albert Johanneson - Outside-left

Outside-left

 
Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.

The problem i have with c*nts and groups like that is that the basis of their argument is fundamentally wrong. People sign up to the Armed Forces to serve their country and do so whether they agree with the political climate/highly controversial war or not. They do so because if they don't, who else will?

Criticising the soldiers for fighting out there is the most boneheaded thing a tree hugger can possibly do in relation to the situation, and shows a complete lack of understanding of...it all! (i still maintain that in order to fully understand military life, you have to have lived the military life, and i know a few people on here who have because they're the only ones i really pay any attention to when something like this comes up)

The soldiers are doing their job - It's the people who authorised the invasion that should have their ankles broken so we can recognise them by their limping. Damning the soldiers isn't going to change a thing out there except disillusion the people who risk death by going to work. Damning the folk who sent them there might, just might, one day make a difference.

Whilst i'd never ever want to see the freedom of speech eradicated, some people just deserve to have their tongues cut off for the sake of irony.

wombat

| 8,154 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:12 pm

wombat - Technically sexy.

Technically sexy.

 
Quote: Squirrell_of_Doom
Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.

The problem i have with c*nts and groups like that is that the basis of their argument is fundamentally wrong. People sign up to the Armed Forces to serve their country and do so whether they agree with the political climate/highly controversial war or not. They do so because if they don't, who else will?

Criticising the soldiers for fighting out there is the most boneheaded thing a tree hugger can possibly do in relation to the situation, and shows a complete lack of understanding of...it all! (i still maintain that in order to fully understand military life, you have to have lived the military life, and i know a few people on here who have because they're the only ones i really pay any attention to when something like this comes up)

The soldiers are doing their job - It's the people who authorised the invasion that should have their ankles broken so we can recognise them by their limping. Damning the soldiers isn't going to change a thing out there except disillusion the people who risk death by going to work. Damning the folk who sent them there might, just might, one day make a difference.

Whilst i'd never ever want to see the freedom of speech eradicated, some people just deserve to have their tongues cut off for the sake of irony.


this.
Southern hemispherical rat boy

Albi The Racist Dragon

| 7,432 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:16 pm

Albi The Racist Dragon -

 
Quote: Squirrell_of_Doom
Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.


What's the relevance? Is this another example of the "if you dont support the British army you must be a nazi" idiot logic that gets thrown around
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Tobias Fünke

| 4,730 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:19 pm

Tobias Fünke  - I blue myself.

I blue myself.

 
I concur with Tory Boy on this, rather sadly. I don't think you should be personally attacked for holding the opinion Joel, I just think you're wrong and have posted on your Facebook with my £0.02.

(But hey, it's freedom of speech. Good luck with it.)
Analrapist.

Tobias Fünke

| 4,730 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:20 pm

Tobias Fünke  - I blue myself.

I blue myself.

 
Though let's leave the Godwin's Law stuff out of this.
Analrapist.

Albi The Racist Dragon

| 7,432 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:40 pm

Albi The Racist Dragon -

 
Quote: Look_Dad_No_Tunes
Though let's leave the Godwin's Law stuff out of this.


I don't think it's Godwin's Law if it occurs in the first reply.


I also don't agree that everything can be justified with 'theyre just doing their job', like everyone is totally naive when they sign up. Surely when people sign up they must have some idea of what their job MAY entail. Particularly as according to the Guardian recruitment was up 9.2% for the most recent year figures were available (2006).
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Albert Johanneson

| 14,477 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:46 pm

Albert Johanneson - Outside-left

Outside-left

 
Quote: pablomarmite


I also don't agree that everything can be justified with 'theyre just doing their job', like everyone is totally naive when they sign up. Surely when people sign up they must have some idea of what their job MAY entail. Particularly as according to the Guardian recruitment was up 9.2% for the most recent year figures were available (2006).

That's not fully correct though mate. Do you have any idea how many forces jobs will never take an applicant near a battlefield to fight? I've got the book upstairs if you want a list.

EDIT - FFS i've just pasted this over the top of my last post.

Tobias Fünke

| 4,730 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 4:58 pm

Tobias Fünke  - I blue myself.

I blue myself.

 
Quote: pablomarmite
Quote: Look_Dad_No_Tunes
Though let's leave the Godwin's Law stuff out of this.


I don't think it's Godwin's Law if it occurs in the first reply.


I also don't agree that everything can be justified with 'theyre just doing their job', like everyone is totally naive when they sign up. Surely when people sign up they must have some idea of what their job MAY entail. Particularly as according to the Guardian recruitment was up 9.2% for the most recent year figures were available (2006).


So can you name a country that doesn't have a military? It's not exactly realistic to suggest all people are in a position to turn down what the miltary life offers. I don't doubt there are some complete d*cks in the army (I know a few), but calling them 'baby killers' isn't exactly helpful either. It's like people who call students lazy drunken tax dodging unwashed guardian reading c*nts. Undoubtedly there are students that conform to that stereotype, but it's unfair on most.
Analrapist.

Albi The Racist Dragon

| 7,432 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 5:01 pm

Albi The Racist Dragon -

 
I should point out again in my first post I said I understand the need of a military. I'm not against soldiers, I'm against the idea that they're somehow beyond criticism.
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Tobias Fünke

| 4,730 posts


12th Jun 2008 at 5:10 pm

Tobias Fünke  - I blue myself.

I blue myself.

 
Yes Joel, but the only people who won't grant you having that opinion are idiots anyway. Equally, do you think calling soldiers 'baby killers' is helpful?
Analrapist.

Freshly Squeezed Cynic

| 6,189 posts


13th Jun 2008 at 12:29 am

Freshly Squeezed Cynic - apparently the big pink bastard is me

apparently the big pink bastard is me

 
Quote:
Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.


You endorsing Keynesian pump-priming there, Dan?

But yeah, I'd have to agree with Dan as well, criticising the soldiers because they're doing the job they're meant to do is a bit unfair on the squaddies, especially when there's generals and politicians that need a good kicking.

What is on is criticising the soldiers for the jobs they're not meant to do, like, for instance, prisoner abuse, which astonishingly seems to be missed by those supporting their country, right and wrong, especially the wrong.

Albert Johanneson

| 14,477 posts


13th Jun 2008 at 2:37 pm

Albert Johanneson - Outside-left

Outside-left

 
Quote: fsc
Quote:
Hitler ran a top notch economy, you know.


You endorsing Keynesian pump-priming there, Dan?


The results were impressive economically, but the methods used to get them were less so. I'm still all about Milton Friedman


 
 
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